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Asunto:=?UTF-8?Q?Re:_=5Bdxcolombia=5D_=22RE:RE:_=5Bdxcolo?= =?UTF-8?Q?mbia=5D_HK3AR_operaci=C3=B3n_ilegal=22?=
Fecha:Miercoles, 21 de Enero, 2009  15:03:38 (-0500)
Autor:pclaver \(Macodex\) <claver.1967 @.....com>
En respuesta a:Mensaje 5136 (escrito por HK3CW)

锘¿

Roberto como estas
Donde van a estar en San Andres, yo viajaba en el dia de ma帽ana y aplace el vuelo para finales o principios de la otra.
Me gustaria hacer Qsos en 160 mts desde San Andres.
De hecho yo voy a estar operando permanentemente desde este mes en San Andres por laboro...Cuando visite la oficina de alla
Pedro
Hk1x
 
----- Original Message -----
From: HK3CW
Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 12:59 PM
Subject: Re: [dxcolombia] "RE:RE: [dxcolombia] HK3AR operaci贸n ilegal"

De acuerdo Don Hernan pero prefiero 200 legales que 1000 ilegales. La cosa es hacernos respetar y que no venga cualquier gringo a pasarnos, como se dice en el argot popular "por la galleta". El se帽or Rogozinski, el patrocinador de esta y otras operaciones dudosas, se le fue la mano esta vez y hay que sentar precedentes, caigale el guante al que le caiga. El HK3 criollo envuelto en el asunto tambien debe ser sancionado..y talvez con mayor rigor.
Soy de la opini贸n que denunciado hay que insistir hasta lograr resultados y que vean que no estamos pintados en la pared.  La discusi贸n en el foro de QRZ con algunos fue bastante agria, pero nos defendimos "como gatos bocarriba" .
 
73 de HK3CW  Roberto
(5K0CW desde ma帽ana y hasta el 28 desde San Andres Is, participando en el CQWW CW 160 mts y otras bandas fuera del concurso)
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 12:34 AM
Subject: [dxcolombia] "RE:RE: [dxcolombia] HK3AR operaci贸n ilegal"

Esbueno poner atenci贸n al tema pero no darle tanta tiza, cuando la radioafici贸n en colombia pasa por la mayor crisis existencialista, dede la promulgaci贸n de la Ley 94 de 1993, y sus decretos regamentarios, que hist贸ricamente, en lugar de promover el hooby le est¡n dando un entrieero de tercera; en 1994 eramos al rrededor de 18.000, licencias, que por los costos, los celos de instituciones y pleeas de colegas, como la que Ud asumen,(esbueno reportar al ministerio pero no darle tanta pol茅mica al asunto) destruye y no construye, pues ahora solo quedamos unos 1650 aproximadamente; dediqu茅monos a construir presentando propuestas asertivas que promuevan la uni贸n, la investigaci贸n, la promosi贸n, y la rebaja de los costos de licencias, operaci贸n de asociaciones, repetidoras e importaci贸n de equipos, para que la telefon铆a celular no siga cusando da帽os en la actividad de las nuevas generaciones

att
Hern¡n Varona Silva
HK5 KVZ
Lic 2964 Cat Avanzada
---Mensaje original---





 
 
Saludos a todos los colegas de DXCOLOMBIA.
Juan Camilo, ni m¡s ni menos la raz贸n de volver a retomar este caso fue la de mostrar que la gran mayor铆a de radioaficionados del mundo que opinaron en QRZ.COM, estuvieron de acuerdo en que esa operaci贸n fue ilegal, dandote un espaldarazo por lo que en su momento fuiste capaz de denunciar.
Y mi opini贸n en este caso es que las leyes y decretos que rigen la radioafici贸n en Colombia fueron violadas por estos se帽ores, que ten铆an la obligaci贸n de cumplir en todo con estas disposiciones. La ignorancia de las leyes no es excusa para el delito Y es que fue un delito el haber usufructuado el espectro radioel茅ctico en Colombia, el haber usado indicativos no asignados, porque ni siquiera fueron solicitados y ademas est¡n adjudicados a una persona natural en Colombia, el haber usado equipos de telecomunicaciones sin la autorizaci贸n correspondiente, etc etc. En otra 茅poca cuando exist铆a el estatuto antiterrorismo,  el echo de usar, portar o poseer un equipo de comunicaciones sin licencia, era considerado algo similar al porte ilegal de armas y castigado d煤ramente.
Ante las leyes de nuestra Rep煤blica deben responder estos se帽ores. Los organizadores de concursos para radioaficionados deben tomar las medidad correspondientes para evitar que su credibilidad se vea deteriorada y m¡s a煤n que se conviertan en c贸mplices de esas actuaciones.
Para terminar este comentario debo decir que no quiero que estos casos pasen al olvido para evitar que esto vuelva a ocurrir en nuestro pa铆s y en la radioafici贸n mundial.
Cordialmente


B O B   H K 1 A A





From: hk3cq@hotmail.com
To: dxcolombia@elistas.net
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 00:26:16 0000
Subject: RE: [dxcolombia] HK3AR operaci贸n ilegal

Roberto, HK1AA:
El indicativo que fue suplantado ilegalmente es el de Wolfgang Torres, HK3RA, no HK3AR. Ya que usted se tom贸 la molestia de reproducir esa larga pol茅mica en QRZ.COM, que est¡ llena de desinformaci贸n, mentiras e insultos, especialmente por parte de dos radioaficionados (4L5A y LU5DX) que sin conocer la realidad de las cosas se pusieron a especular para defender y justificar una operaci贸n abusiva e ilegal, que fue denunciada por un buen grupo de radioaficionados colombianos, ser铆a bueno conocer cu¡l es su opini贸n al respecto.
Juan Camilo
HK3CQ




From: hk1aa@hotmail.com
To: dxcolombia@elistas.net
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 23:20:55 0000
Subject: [dxcolombia] HK3AR operaci贸n ilegal



  http://forums.qrz.com/showthread.php?t=188653

 
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  #1  
Old 01-08-2009, 06:27 PM
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Posts: 20
Default Blackmail on CQ WW Contest Comittee

BLACKMAIL ON CQ WW CONTEST COMITTEE

Some hams are labling the operation of HK3RA by Russian amateur Dimirti Kryukov RA3CO
as a hijacking, or the unauthorized use of a callsign not assigned to the operator. In his defense, Dimitri
claims that he was lent the callsign by its actual owner, Wolfgang Torres, who is reportedly not
a contester. Regardless, Colombian law does not permit amateurs to lend their callsign to another person.

A group of Colombian hams, led by Juan Camilo Rodriguez, HK3CQ, have filed a formal complaint
to CQ WW CC .

Further complicating the matter are the actions of another Colombian station, HK1AR, a.k.a. Tony
Rogozinski (W4OI), who permitted Kryukov and others to rent his QTH and operate his station in
the 2007 CQ WW Contest. Also named in the complaint is Girts Budis, YL2KL as an HK1AR callsign "user".


The bottom line is that a group of Colombian operators are asking that the prohibition against
"callsign lending" be strictly enforced in their country and that RA3CO and YL2KL be prohibited from
conducting further operations in Colombia and to be DQed .

For more details see these links:

http://contesting.at-communication.c...l_k3est_hk3ra/
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  #2  
Old 01-08-2009, 11:36 PM
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Default hijack

Hijacking?? It's just the Russian way of doing things.
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  #3  
Old 01-08-2009, 11:46 PM
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Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4L5A View Post
Further complicating the matter are the actions of another Colombian station, HK1AR, a.k.a. Tony Rogozinski (W4OI), who permitted Kryukov and others to rent his QTH and operate his station in
the 2007 CQ WW Contest.
Someone rented another ham's station? I can think of a few stations that are "rented" each CQ contest. This is a problem why??
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  #4  
Old 01-09-2009, 12:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W4DFW View Post
Someone rented another ham's station? I can think of a few stations that are "rented" each CQ contest. This is a problem why??
Because Colombian law as cited in Chapter VII, Article 76, Section 9 of the rules that regulate amateur radio activities in that country, states "The use of one's callsign by any other person is prohibited". Contest rules also state that all operations be conducted in compliance with rules and laws.

When operating in Colombia or other countries with similar rules, you can rent the equipment, but it's up to the operator to have a valid license and in Colombia using someone else's license isn't allowed.

73,
Walt, W5ALT
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  #5  
Old 01-09-2009, 12:45 AM
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Default wow

Big deal Sounds like another bunch of 7 year olds crying to mommy.
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  #6  
Old 01-09-2009, 01:04 AM
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by W4DFW View Post
Someone rented another ham's station? I can think of a few stations that are "rented" each CQ contest. This is a problem why??
Because the station owner's callsign was used during the contest by the renter. The "renter" didn't have a valid callsign.
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  #7  
Old 01-09-2009, 01:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by w5alt View Post
Because Colombian law as cited in Chapter VII, Article 76, Section 9 of the rules that regulate amateur radio activities in that country, states.....
You have waaaaaay too much time on your hands. Citing "Columbian" amateur laws?

Now, I've seen everything.
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  #8  
Old 01-09-2009, 02:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AI6DX View Post
You have waaaaaay too much time on your hands. Citing "Columbian" amateur laws?

Now, I've seen everything.
And the problem with following the laws of a particular country is....what? One could twist your comment to indicate that someone who visits the US can ignore US regulations. I know that is not what you mean....but what makes Colombian law any less "legal" in their country than US law here? Opening THAT door will get you in deep kimchee.....as they were in Colombia, the local law prevails. As the amateur radio community is international, we do well to respect the laws which impact our hobby. How would you feel if someone came to the US and borrowed your call? Not happy, I would feel certain. The fact that it was "lent" is still in violation of their law...and, IIRC, it would also be illegal here unless the callholder was the control op of the site and on site.

Not a lawyer, and don't play one on TV. Just my personal view on the matter.

73 de N4ABA
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  #9  
Old 01-09-2009, 02:42 AM
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Default laws

"The bottom line is that a group of Colombian operators are asking that the prohibition against
"callsign lending" be strictly enforced in their country and that RA3CO and YL2KL be prohibited from
conducting further operations in Colombia "

no different than if someone from outside the US, who did not have valid reciprocal priveleges here, borrowed your station/call and used it for a contest.

Heck, what's a stinkin' license?

Only absolutely necessary to have a valid contest entry.

You don't think checking laws is important? So what if the guy is in EU, and borrows a US call and operates from there and wins.....what laws.....why should anyone complain....ha ha.....

The folks in Columbia have a right to point out their laws require an operator have a valid permission to operate in their country, and must use their own assigned call.

A Russian cannot borrow your call. He can borrow your station - or operate multi-op IF he has a valid permission to operate in the USA. But not otherwise.

Columbian law apparently is different...no multi-op stations using personal call signs.....dunno about club stations if they have them.
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  #10  
Old 01-09-2009, 04:24 AM
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by N9AMI View Post
Big deal Sounds like another bunch of 7 year olds crying to mommy.

Not really. The law is the law.

When in the USA, people are required to follow USA laws.

When in Colombia, people are required to follow Columbia's laws.

It's so simple it is not worth worrying about. If they operated illegally, in particular without a license to operate, they should be disqualified.
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  #11  
Old 01-09-2009, 05:07 AM
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Default

I read through the link above, and I assume they accurately quoted the regulation.

It seems to me that it's probably subject to interpretation. What do they mean "used" by a third person? Here, the callsign was assigned to a Colombian ham for the station in his home, and he allowed the Russian to operate. As someone else pointed out, if the word "used" is interpreted as this group did, this means that any kind of multi-op station is also illegal.

It looks like the contest committee asked the people making the complaint to get an opinion from the Colombian authorities clarifying this, and they failed to do so. It seems to me quite likely that they failed to do so because the Colombian authorities don't see it as a violation.

This doesn't appear to be a case of a guy showing up on Colombian soil and borrowing a callsign for his own personal use, which the term "hijacking" seems to imply.

In other words, it sure sounds like there are two sides to this particular story.
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  #12  
Old 01-09-2009, 05:46 AM
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Default

Nobody is against law but when HK3CQ is quired for 3 years and after that start complain about previouse operations I start think why?
When I see that HK3CQ trying to rent his station with no mention about local law WHY?
When he is travelling in South America and asking for support and find guy in Argentina who is speculating using name of George LU8DQ WHY?
Local hams in HK need to be aware of the law right?
You know when I find that on qrz.com:
PLEASE NO BUREAU. ONLY DIRECT QSL VIA QRZ.COM Since january 2003 postal service in Colombia increased 100%. Most of the QSL's for my Jet Box adress in Miami will be returned from Colombia: Please no USA or Colombian stamps. Due to exchange rate the mailing cost it's about US$3.
You can check your self on HK3CQ profile
Then I think many things becoming much more clearer
If I will come to US and will ask local friend if I can use his call sign and he will say yes then its ok for me and I think also for you if you visit another country
In this sitaution I think HK3CQ is just trying to get more people to rent his station instead of HK1AR station and thats it its dont have any kind of the connection with law only with his personnal interest and LU1DZ is just trying to satisfy his EGO
73 Al 4L5A
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  #13  
Old 01-09-2009, 01:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AI6DX View Post
You have waaaaaay too much time on your hands. Citing "Columbian" amateur laws?

Now, I've seen everything.
Walt currently lives in and operates from Venezuela, and frequently travels to Colombia. Knowing those laws is part of the time on his hands. He knows that information better than anyone else here.
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  #14  
Old 01-09-2009, 03:02 PM
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Default

"There's not too much you can't fix, with $200.00 and a .30-06" -Col. Jeff Cooper

Who's Col. Jeff Cooper?

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  #15  
Old 01-09-2009, 04:55 PM
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WB0MNW View Post
"There's not too much you can't fix, with $200.00 and a .30-06" -Col. Jeff Cooper

Who's Col. Jeff Cooper?

Bren 10 designer, and one of the folks that contributed much to personal defense weapon development and use. He certainly didn't come up with the "Hollywood side shooter" (common in movies...holding a firearm "sideways" instead of upright...dumb!) but developed and taught points that anyone that owns a firearm should know. A decent read is located at:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Cooper_(colonel)

73 de N4ABA
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  #16  
Old 01-09-2009, 05:37 PM
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Wink CALL SIGN FOR RENT

Can I post " CALL SIGN FOR RENT?"
- Any station must comply with the rules. IARU has the reciprocal agreement for the convenience of all signatories. We understand that getting a permission to operate outside the U.S, even if there's a reciprocal agreement between two countries is sometimes a pain in the butt. Local authorities in any countries are not always aware about the reciprocal agreement. A local police, mayor, congressman, senator in Colombia, Venezuela, Cuba etc.. are not aware what is all about amateur radio.
When you boarded a plane to your destination outside the U.S, upon your arrival in any country, if anyone seeing you erecting a tower with antennas and radios, you are getting a passers-by attention thinking that you are doing a military operation of some sort, and you will be reported to a local police, and then the problem will start. You will be ask the 5 W's and you will try to explain that you are a ham- local people will say " WHAT is THAT?"

>K6ZRH
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  #17  
Old 01-09-2009, 07:56 PM
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Default Blackmail

I'm still trying to figure out who is being "blackmailed?"
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  #18  
Old 01-09-2009, 08:02 PM
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Default THIS IS NOT NEWS AND DOES NOT BELONG HERE!

From the standpoint of this being a newsworthy item deserving front page attention -- it is NOT! This is opinion by 4L5A and really should be treated as such.

News is "Who, what, when, where and how" as fully corroborated with factual evidence prior to publication. Past that its opinion and until the facts are corroborated. Therefore, as 4L5A has not presented any corroborated this entire matter cannot be construed as anything other than his opinion.

Also, this is a privately sponsored event. As such it is up to the judges and only the judges to decide eligability. 4L5A and anyone else has the right to file a letter of that asks the judges to take note of what he preceives as a violattion of the contest rules and to provide evidence, but thats where it ends.

If and when this matter is resolved by the person or persons judging the event it becomes a fait de complais. Until that happens this is naught but one ham radio operators opinion.

Also, where is there any "blackmail" involved? The legal definitions of the term "blackmail" are:

1. Extortion of money or something else of value from a person by the threat of exposing a criminal act or discreditable information.

2. Something of value extorted in this manner.

3. Tribute formerly paid to freebooters along the Scottish border for protection from pillage.

With all due respect to 4L5A, unless he can conclusively prove that those involved in the operation paid tribute (extortion monies) to the contest sponsor(s) I would strongly suggest that he retract the use of that term. By using it without providing proof that "blackmail" in the legal sense has occurred he places himself and the owners of this website into legal jeopardy should those he accuses and/or the contest sponsors deem his remarks to be libelous, slanderous or in legal "bad light."

Far to much in the way of opinion is being given credibility as being newsworthy. Separating opinion from fact is something that we in the media are quite concerned about. You should be too.

And as my old -- now departed friend George Putnam used to say: 'Thats this reporters opinion. I welcome yours."

Bill Pasternak, WA6ITF
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  #19  
Old 01-09-2009, 09:12 PM
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Default Blackmail CQ WW CC Comittee

Quote:
Originally Posted by W8JI View Post
Not really. The law is the law.

When in the USA, people are required to follow USA laws.

When in Colombia, people are required to follow Columbia's laws.

It's so simple it is not worth worrying about. If they operated illegally, in particular without a license to operate, they should be disqualified.
I Could Not Agree More Disqualify Them!!! Our Rules Should Not Be Broken Without being Punished We Are Self POLICING !!!!!
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  #20  
Old 01-09-2009, 11:48 PM
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Default MZ8A

If I would let another ham rent (or use) my location and station (and call)
I would ask to show me the operators valid U.K. (or reciprocal) licence.
Is there no licence the operation is ILLEGAL !
Where is the problem ?
Hans
MZ8A / SHETLAND
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  #21  
Old 01-10-2009, 03:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AI6DX View Post
You have waaaaaay too much time on your hands. Citing "Columbian" amateur laws?

Now, I've seen everything.
Actually I can see eastern Colombia out of my window right now and I do make sure I operate within the law where ever I do operate.

73,
Walt, W5ALT
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  #22  
Old 01-10-2009, 03:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by w0is View Post
I read through the link above, and I assume they accurately quoted the regulation.

It seems to me that it's probably subject to interpretation. What do they mean "used" by a third person? Here, the callsign was assigned to a Colombian ham for the station in his home, and he allowed the Russian to operate. As someone else pointed out, if the word "used" is interpreted as this group did, this means that any kind of multi-op station is also illegal.
The actual text in Spanish reads:
Quote:
9. No permitir el uso de sus indicativos de llamada a cualquier otra persona.
Sounds pretty clear to me, not much room for interpretation and the translation is accurate.

The entire HK rules are here if you read Spanish.

73,
Walt, W5ALT
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  #23  
Old 01-10-2009, 06:36 AM
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Quote:
The entire HK rules are here if you read Spanish.
Thanks for the link. Well, it does look like they regulations are picky about who uses the callsign:

Quote:
13. Identificarse con sus propios indicativos, cuando se est茅n realizando transmisiones a trav茅s de una estaci贸n que no sea de su propiedad, seguidos de las palabras "operando desde" y los indicativos asignados a la estaci贸n desde la cual efect煤a la transmisi贸n.
It sounds like the guy should have been ID'ing with his own callsign and the words "operating from" the host's callsign.

BTW, I think we worked before, if you had a different call several years ago! I was /YV.
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  #24  
Old 01-10-2009, 08:14 AM
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Dear Friends,
That words of HK3CQ I call blackmail:
"The situation is so severe that many have said they will no longer participate in CQWW contests until the committee takes action."

Now look on that advertizement made by his friend
http://ar.groups.yahoo.com/group/wwsatest/message/130
Do you see any word that you need to apply for license to operate from this station? He is talking about keyer etc and now LU1DZ is start compaign against contesters from other countries
Look on that:
Its interesting did Colombian law is allowing that?
Call: 5K5Z
Operator(s): W4OI
Station: HK3CQ

Class: SOSB/20 LP
QTH: Colombia
Operating Time (hrs): 26

Summary:
Band QSOs Zones Countries
------------------------------
160:
80:
40:
20: 1585 36 118
15:
10:
------------------------------
Total: 1585 36 118 Total Score = 750,000
Its CQ WW CW 2004

According to QRZ.COM 5K5Z is belong to:

Gary McClellan,3422 E Altadena Ave,Phoenix, USA

That clearly show how HK3CQ is following own country rules Propably he need to send complain about his self also to CQ WW CC and to Ministry of Communication of Colombia


Its very clear for what HK3CQ is fighting for and I have confirmation of it
73 Al 4L5A
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  #25  
Old 01-10-2009, 08:32 AM
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Default

Im happy Hans MZ8A is say very right things
We are all forgeting about responsibility of station owner
Its very simple if for example I become crazy and will allow terrorist to use my station who will be responsible for that?
Or then HK3CQ will send letter to Usama asking him to DQ him :-)
Its just dirty game and for what HK3CQ is fighting for its clearly showed by his qrz.com profile
LU5DX Martin is send emails to 10 most active HK contesters and 7 of them is comeback to him and say that they are not supporting what HK3CQ and LU1DZ is doing
If HK3CQ is dont know his own rules or not follow it before then he need to organize his self first and then asking to DQ people and specially for past contests also

Hans Thank you very much for multipliers in many contests MM0XAU is unforgetable call but now its even easier to remember MZ8A
Thanks
73 Al 4L5A/D4B
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  #26  
Old 01-10-2009, 05:07 PM
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Default Too much blabber, not much truth

All this thread has gone out of hand. Let me clarify.
1) The CQWW contest committee has asked for an official response from the Colombian Ministry of Communications. The Ministry has not provided it's response until it makes its own investigation, give it time to make their own decision. It would be utterly irresponsible for a Ministry to act on something without making it's own research. It is a lie that the Ministry has declined action or not replied.
2) No it's not blackmail...that is ridiculous! Simply, HK hams are very concerned that the CQWW has not taken action against the offenders and have concerns about future participation, if rules are not strictly followed. Where is the blackmail?
3) If you operate form Colombia you are are obligated to comply with Colombian ham rules, laws from the US, Kenya or Switzerland have absolutely no force in Colombia
Speculation is king, facts talk for themselves, lets stick to the facts!
73 de HK3CW Rob
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  #27  
Old 01-10-2009, 05:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by w0is View Post
It sounds like the guy should have been ID'ing with his own callsign and the words "operating from" the host's callsign.

BTW, I think we worked before, if you had a different call several years ago! I was /YV.
Yep, it sounds like at best he wasn't ID'ing properly and at worst he wasn't properly licensed for operation in HK. As mentioned by HK3CW, it's up to the Colombian Ministry to determine how stringent their rules are.

I think I remember working you several years ago. Maybe 40m and you were in Caracas? My old call was KE5WJ and I was operating YV1/KE5WJ. Or is my memory bad?

73,
Walt, W5ALT
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  #28  
Old 01-10-2009, 06:26 PM
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Default Your missing the correct info

Quote:
Originally Posted by w0is View Post
I read through the link above, and I assume they accurately quoted the regulation.

It seems to me that it's probably subject to interpretation. What do they mean "used" by a third person? Here, the callsign was assigned to a Colombian
In other words, it sure sounds like there are two sides to this particular story.
The fact are:
1) The russian operator never applied for an HK license
2) He (the adjective is right) hijacked the "HK3RA" call for himself thinking that nobody would notice and used it abusively, without the knowledge of the real license holder - HK3RA, who does not know the code or participates in contests.
3) The year prior, Mr. Kurykov used the license lent by him by HK1AR (a known ebay scammer, W4OI). That was the first time he acted illegally.
So why did this all happen to come about? HK hams began an investigation over a strange HK3RA call in the contest and other illegal operations began surfacing, not strangely, all endorsed by HK1AR. His need for cash has led him to "rent" his station, without any regard to HK ham regulations.
We in Colombia will not tolerate illegal operations, even if we are going to be subjected to false accusations and condemnation from people that do not know the facts and simply judge without knowing what really happened, like Mr. 4L5A! Who way from in the middle of nowhere says he knows the truth..what a bunch of BS.
73 de HK3CW Rob
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  #29  
Old 01-10-2009, 11:18 PM
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Cool

Lets see what we have here. N9AMI is saying lets not make a big deal out of this. well i wounder how he and others with the same attetude would feel if all of a sudden there call was up for grabs on ebay for example. now thats a thought.
73's all
dave
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Old 01-11-2009, 12:12 AM
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What's the big deal about renting or using someone else's license? Heck, it's done thousands of times a day in the US by illegal aliens.. drivers licenses, social security numbers, voter ID's.. thousands of such transactions occur in the US every day. Must only be an issue if radio is involved.
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Old 01-11-2009, 03:53 PM
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Law need to be same for everyone and not different for HK3CQ and different to YL2KL,RA3CO
Rob check I send you private message via qrz.com and propably that will open for you something
Why you pushing to DQ YL2KL and RA3CO?
Why HK3CQ is not following own country rules?
Why you not talking about responsibility of station owners?
Its looks for me that HK3CQ and HK1AR is didnt know
the rules before and only now find it out?
HK3CQ is didnt complain about YL2KL operation for 3 years and he is involved in that and have correspondance with YL2KL and even give him some offers
I think that need to be fixed in ham spirit and not a way
when you starting to blackmail CQ WW CC
73 Al 4L5A
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  #32  
Old 01-12-2009, 06:04 AM
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I send private message to Rob HK3CW in which I show him clearly that another well known Colombian amateur is involve in that
I show him correspondance and one of the email is say that HK3RA is happy to allow RA3CO to use his call in the contest
Its looks like people is dont know their own law
Dear Rob tell me PLEASE
1.operation of W4OI from HK3CQ qth with call sign 5K5Z is legal or not?
2.When owner of the station is allowing anybody to use his call or another person call he responsible for that or not

Im happy to see that you going to activize San Andres Island in CQ WW 160M Contest
I think its possible that first time that country will be active in CQ WW 160
GREAT!!!!
I hope 5K0CW is club call sign and not your private call otherwise K5UO and WF5W can be in trouble
Lets hope not
Like we all know PTT is usually listen to radiamateur league why you not ask your local PTT to allow guest operators?

73 Al 4L5A

Last edited by 4L5A; 01-12-2009 at 06:21 AM.
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  #33  
Old 01-12-2009, 11:00 PM
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Default Hijacking?

I think we should take a cue from the Columbian authorities and ban hijacking - or renting of others' stations by anyone, anywhere. This would put contesting on a much more level footing for all. The Russian did nothing more than any of the Caribbean flyaway (Cinderella station) contesters do each major contest.

Good for the Columbians.
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  #34  
Old 01-13-2009, 07:14 PM
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Default hey 'ROA

Dont lump us contest travelers who:
- follow the rules
- apply for and wait 6 months for a license
- lug a bunch a stuff through multiple airports
- pay stupid duties and bribes
- fork over costs to rent a QTH and airfare
- answer a bunch of QSL requests

with some lazy hams that dont think its required to get a real license.

So the next time you call me during the contest and I dont quite hear you, remember this Cinderella op.
de KN5H
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  #35  
Old 01-14-2009, 03:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4L5A View Post
I send private message to Rob HK3CW in which I show him clearly that another well known Colombian amateur is involve in that
I have not received anything and I don't see why somebody has to send me private messages to "clearly" demonstrate anything that hasn't already been said or demonstrated in this forum..why a private email..is there something to hide?
HK3RA is not a happy camper and anyone who says the contrary is lying his pants off. Jesus! The guy didn't even know until we found out! That the hell are you saying? Why are you accusing HK3CQ for an illegal operation?
Again lets stick to the facts and not invent what you would like. 5K5Z was an operation that Tony Rogozinski (w4OI) did from the farm of HK3CQ. Hk3CQ did not rent his place and never has. We had all just met Tony a few weeks back and he asked for a place to operate a contest, HK3CQ lent him his shack outside of Bogota in his farm, without any payment. I personally went to check on this operation with HK3CQ to see how it was going and we saw that Mr. Rogozinski was using a call that was not supposed to, 5k5Z-- 5k is alright but he used 5k5 and he should have used 5K3...it was strange to us and we confronted him about it and using the "gringo" card said that is what the ministry had allotted him. A big lie as the Ministry does not allot callsigns to the wrong district area of Colombia. That was our first encounter with this guy, who deceived HK3CQ and even broke a window and did other inappropriate things in HK3CQ' farm. That was our first brush with Tony's antics and since that operation he got a place outside of Bogota, rents it for a ridiculous amount of money and says he will not be in charge of callsigns. I personally helped two operations to get licenses to operate from Tony's other place in Cartagena (hk1), since then I have not helped anybody else get licenses since his ex-wife took away his property from him and because of his lack of morale. Key collectors who know him well have denounced and unmasked this guy for years! Did you know Tony has been blown off eBay for 34 times, for using deceiving practices, not paying for items or a number of illegal acts on eBay? This guy is a class act! When he came to Colombia we all accepted him and tried to help him in all ways possible...being fellow ham.

Now lets not be fast in blowing whistles on someone you don't even know. I know for a fact everything that happened and know Hk3CQ..a dear friend, respected Dxer and honest person. Respect the guy for doing what he did, not throw stones at him for trying the keep our hobby honest.
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  #36  
Old 01-14-2009, 03:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4L5A View Post
I
I hope 5K0CW is club call sign and not your private call otherwise K5UO and WF5W can be in trouble
Lets hope not
We have not even begun the operation and you are already accusing us of not using a proper call? Who says we have to use a club callsign? Where did this guy come from? I have nothing to prove to you. What are these uncanny accusations, you are delusional and are fast to shoot bullets to whoever is around, get another person not me...first you accuse HK3CQ of what ever you like and now you accuse me ... and I have not even started operating yet!! What a jerk!
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  #37  
Old 01-15-2009, 05:49 AM
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Rob I just ask you and if you dont like to answer the question then that mean 5K0CW is not club callsign also
I dont have anything against anybody but you know if we
talking about law then law need to be same for everyone
and propably that will be best if you HK amateurs will ask
PTT to allow guest operators to use HK call signs
I dont see any answer from you also on my email which I send to you here via qrz.com
You dont have anything to say?
You comeup here specially to support HK3CQ and LU1DZ?
Then approve atleast that what they are do is right
I give you so many examples and you cant answer any of my question
You need to remember that not only you can write letters
to Ministry of Communication of Colombia but we can do the same
You dont think its better to stop attack on RA3CO and YL2KL because they are dont do anything different to what you and HK3CQ is do
73 Al 4L5A
PS Look on the top of the page you can see there is private message waiting for you
There is copies of the letters which propably will give you chance to see how story is looks from another end
Rob I just like that we all respect each other and listen to each other
You dont like W4OI its up to you but you know again when we coming to any country we count our local friends like experts and if HK1AR is renting qth for so many years and no body of our Colombian friend say anything about that then everyone is think its legal
Its not very ethic to start complain about pass operation and also if you will be able to check that private mail on qrz.com you will see there is letter where well known HK3 amateur is informing RA3CO that everything is agreed etc etc etc
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  #38  
Old 01-15-2009, 05:57 AM
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Dear Rob,
I understand you dont like what W4OI is do and you describe all the facts and for me is also looks not nice but also with another reason
Rob if 5K5Z operate illegally from HK3CQ location and like we both see there is many mistakes in this operation then that will be great if you will announce rules of operation in HK but you know in the situation which we have today HK3CQ is asking to DQ RA3CO and YL2KL and those two guys is dont do anything wrong there is advertizement of renting qth and they are rent it and pay money for it
I think only the mistake they are have they are trust info
which they are get from local hamradio operators
Why you asking to DQ operators whom somebody put in mistake?
We all becoming nervouse and start complaing to each other etc etc
You think its not better to finish that story with ham radio spirit to inform everyone how it need to be done in Colombia in the future and not blaim people for their trust to the local hams?
I wish you GL in coming CQ WW 160m CW Contest and Im sure you will make lot of people very happy
I dont remember HK0 active in CQ WW 160M contest
73 Rob
Al 4L5A
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  #39  
Old 01-15-2009, 02:44 PM
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Default Just be legal!!

There is nothing strange that needs to be done when operating in Colombia...just be legal...These two guys knew it. Now on the YL..he sent me emails just a couple of weeks before he came to Colombia, for me to help him get a license. I told him it was impossible with such a short notice. That is all I ever knew of him again until we saw him operate as HK1/YL2KL! I told him he would be illegal and he never replied. I have all the emails to prove it! Now I sent the ARRL desk the information on this and called and spoke to them. They said the only thing they could do is deny his LOTW request...strangely YL2KL never requested LoTw for his illegal operation.

Now lets just cut to the chase and end this soap opera: if YL2KL or RA3CO show their licenses provided by the Ministry of Communications of Colombia, they will CLEARLY demonstrate they had permission to operate and that will shut our Colombian whistle-blowing mouths right?
They will never do that because the NEVER even bothered to get a license, they though this was a banana republic that nobody would care or even hear the ham bands...they were so wrong and now are paying for it.
Again if you still want to blame HK3CQ go for it..he and we all know the truth and will fight to the end even if half the ham community is against us! Why do we have to fight so much for people to be honest? Is this what ham radio has become?
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Old 01-15-2009, 04:05 PM
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Dear Rob,
Thank you very much for your post
Let me tell you something
I dont count Colombia or any other country like banana country
Thank you very much Im happy that you read my letter and you understand why I make it private
I can tell you one things you can believe it or not RA3CO and YL2KL is didnt know its illegal to operate that way
Its surpize for both of them and you see propably what
Dmitriy RA3CO tell radio-sport
I think their mistake is that they are trust another amateur and you see in situation with RA3CO he trust another amateur from Colombia who tell him that he have
can use HK3RA call sign
Of course license cant be issued verbally
You know HK1RA/W4OI is charching money to operate from his station and if RA3CO or YL2KL will know in advance do you think they are rent that station?
There is many other qths around which you can rent
Both of them is not expect any problem and think its
absolutely legal and thats only reason why they are operate
You give us example about 5K5Z and you see how its go
and thats create the problem and nothing is go out because that operation accepted and no one is hear about
any kind of the problem
I think when somebody rent the station he take first responsibility whats going on and if law of the country followed
You know whats going to be happen if I will ask you Rob let me use your station and will start operate with call sign
lets say 3Y0A you will stop me immediatly right?
You know Rob those two amateurs YL2KL,RA3CO is both
candidates also to parcipicate in WRTC 2010 and if Colombian radioamateurs will fight for their DQ and if make pressure on CQ WW CC to DQ them that will be not right with my opinion
So many people is against Colombian law during that last year and I think reason of that is not knowing that
I think responsibility of that is not primary of visitor
its primary of contest station owner
You know if somebody will visit me and say let me operate contest and will start operation with HK3CW call sign do you think I will allow him to do that?
I send private letter to Juan HK3CQ quite long time ago
and I ask him to fix that question with ham spirit way
To use that mistakes ( which not only visitors but also locals do ) to prevent from similar situation in the future and thats it
You know if you will see somebody going to operate from
Colombia you can inform him that if he will dont have call sign its illegal
Please dont create different rules for different people
We will all appreciate that and I think we can allways find a way to show our respect to each other and support our radioamateur friendship
73 Al 4L5A
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  #41  
Old 01-16-2009, 12:08 AM
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It is regrettable the manner reality has been distorted with the operation of RA3CO, Dimitri Kriukov and YL2KL, Girts Budis in Colombia during the CQWW DX past contests. This is all really very amusing to read the comments of people who venture to speculate, providing false accusations against me without even knowing the truth of the facts, coming to false conclusions, concluding about facts they don鈥檛 know and even adjusting the Colombian law to advocate for illegal operations. For this I do have to clarify the following:

- The complaint submitted to the Ministry of Communications of Colombia was not only signed by me, HK3CQ, but also by 20 other recognized and noted dxers and contesters in Colombia. We are not unknown or anonymous; we are active hams and knowledgable of Colombian ham regulations and international contests. Among others, our complaint was signed/endorsed by HK3W, HK3CW, HK6DOS, HK1X, HK6P, HK3O, HK3TU, HJ3LAO, HJ3MQ, HK3GXI, HK3PSA, HK3GAL, HK3LGO, HK3Q, HK4KDO, HK1KXA, HK3JCA, HJ3LAO and HJ3MQ besides HK7AJE as the President of the Federation of Ham Clubs in Colombia, FRACOL (for its Spanish acronym), the national association which groups the largest number of hams in the country. Some of those who endorsed the complaint are not even members of FRACOL, I mention this as it has been said that the signatures had been wrongfully acquired, when on the contrary it was a spontaneous, conscientious and independent action. From the date the complaint was filed to the Ministry, many other Colombian hams have expressed their support and today, without a doubt, many others would additionally endorse the complaint.

- 4L5A and LU5DX have tried to diminish the accusations against RA3CO and YL2KL throwing dirt at HK3CQ with false and ridiculous accusations. Remember that not only HK3CQ has complained, in defense of the dignity and honesty of ham radio in Colombia but a number of other Colombian hams have endorsed this action, as many other hams from different parts of the world. Now 4L5A and LU5DX would have to fabricate more lies against all the signees and the facts would still be the same, RA3CO and YL2KL violated Colombian ham regulations and the rules of the CQWW DX operating without a license and operating using a lent call, expressly prohibited by our ham legislation, where guest operators are also prohibited. Section 9 of Article 76 of Decree 2058 of 1995, of the Colombian Ham regulations; specify that the holder of a ham license in Colombia 鈥渃annot allow the use of their call sign to any other person鈥. Article 16 of the same Decree reads: 鈥淭o be able to operate as a ham radio operator, a license must be obtained from the Ministry of Communications, previously having approved the requirements indicated in this Decree鈥. Therefore, the accused did not file for a license, they simply and abusively took the call signs of other hams; RA3CO did it twice, in 2007 and 2008, knowingly. Maybe HK1RA did lend his call (he has also been included in our complaint) but HK3RA, Wolfgang Torres, never lent his call and was never even requested to do so.

- Evidently I HK3CQ, sent the information to K3EST advising about the abnormality and requesting DQ. It was the least I could do, being the CQ checkpoint for Colombia, besides all who signed the letter knew about this. Therefore the actions have not been solely on my part, nor have they been secret, everything has been public, transparent and in writing for everybody to see.

- The aforementioned means that I never violated the good faith principle. On the contrary, who violated the code were the unfortunate hams that took a risk, operating illegally knowingly, but looked the other way, thinking they wouldn鈥檛 get caught, deceiving the ham community worldwide. The CQWW contest committee was also deceived as logs were sent, knowing they had acted illegally.

- It would be very interesting that LU5DX unveiled the names of the Colombian hams that according to him did not endorse our complaints. This is not a poll or a probe for opinions, where the majority wins. This is about the truth and the law, all so simple. It would be amusing to know the calls of the HK鈥檚 that LU5DX says he contacted and they, if they exist, have no legal bearing and even less ham ethics or plain ethics for that matter. These hams should then promote changes in our legislation to change into legal what today is illegal, promoting self assignment of call signs, no licensing and radio anarchy. Sounds great doesn鈥檛 it?

- Also it was said that why did we not act before. If it weren鈥檛 for the operation of RA3CO it would all be still unknown, but due to his overwhelming hunger for another win, he decided to cross the line again (2008) and shoot for the stars the second time, if he wasn鈥檛 caught the first time why would he the second? We discovered the illegal operation of 2007 by looking at the results of the CQWW of 2007, where it clearly specifies that he operated as HK1AR. From this some local hams became suspicious and knowing that behind all this was HK1AR (W4OI) further research was performed finding the rest of the irregularities we listed in our complaint to the Ministry of Com. We are not professional PI鈥檚 to investigate the legality of every HK call on the airwaves but this came about because we heard the call HK3RA being used before and during the contest from somebody on CW, knowing that the legal owner of the call, Wolfgang Torres, is not a contester and does not know the code. We asked him directly and found the string that led us to the whole story behind that call and others in years prior. Simple story!

- The tale that HK3CQ created the story so he could rent his station is despicable! I have never rented my place and never will. Fortunately I live from my work as an economist, and PhD in history; I work in one of the most prestigious universities of my country, and an advisor and consultant and have the honor of being the VP of the Colombian Academy of History, without deepening further into my r茅sum茅. Therefore, I do not need to rent my ham shack. This lie was likely made-up by Anthony Rogozinsky HK1AR (W4OR) to discredit me, misinform and conceal his illegal operations. The facts are simple: A few years back when Mr. Rogozinsky came to Colombia, when I and others did not know of his antics, I lent (not rent) my ham station in my farm. From there he operated as 5K5Z, I traveled with HK3CW to check on him and ask him why he was operating as 5K5 when he should have operated as 5K3. He said it had been a mistake from the Ministry of Communications. At least on that occasion he did file for a legal license. The 鈥渕istake鈥 鈥 I never believed in, the ministry is very cautious with the paperwork and mistakes are corrected before any operation Once Alberto Silva, LU1DZ, asked me for a QTH to rent to operate from Colombia and I provided Mr. Rogozinsky鈥檚 place in Cartagena, sending him the link. I never said I rented a place, I just told him of that place, the only one I knew of at the time. Later and slowly I and other Colombian hams began to understand the type of person Mr. Rogozinsky really was and began to distance ourselves from him. We also later knew of his EBay scams (he has had more than 34 eBay names and has been kicked off 33 times!). Now he resurfaces with false accusations to stand up for his illegal actions.

- If any ham decided to travel to Russia, Georgia or Argentina for a CQWW contest and use RA3CO, 4L5A or LU5DX or any other invented call, without any regard to local ham regulations, what would be the reaction of the impersonated hams? Would they disqualify them? Well this is the case, here and it is totally incomprehensible for us that some out there are pretending to justify these illegal operations, absolutely incredible!

- It is absurd to think that because the CQWW contest committee has not DQ鈥檇 anybody we are promoting a boycott against them, we are not as dumb as you think we are. This issue has other connotations and we trust that the contest committee will value our complaints and take the appropriate decisions. We will continue to participate and enjoy contests from Colombia, but we will not turn our heads to illegal operations, this is our land and it deserves respect.

- CQ has requested a formal response from the Ministry of Communications of Colombia. If this has not been submitted yet, it is because they have not taken any actions yet, it is not because they have denied our complaints, this issue is taken very seriously in Colombia and the Ministry does not act without taking the appropriate and legal actions against ham operators without making it鈥檚 own investigations. For you who still after all our research and evidence still do not believe our findings, just ask RA3CO and YL2KL for their legal operating license in Colombia, anybody who has operated legally from Colombia in the past will surely provide their license. We requested this to the CQWW contest committee more than a month ago. Will we ever see a legal license from Colombia from any of these two 鈥渉ams鈥? I believe not!
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  #42  
Old 01-16-2009, 05:45 AM
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Juan why you pushing those two hams all the time?
Why you forgetting about responsibility of station owner
If like Rob say 5K5Z operation was illegal then you like owner of your station is also responsible for that
Again I present to Rob letters from Colombian radioamateurs and I have also another letters saying that
visitor can use local amateur callsign
I send to Rob also letter from another amateur saying that HK3RA is agree that RA3CO use his call sign etc etc etc
There is so many information
Im just saying that law need to be same for everyone and responsibility of station owner need to be there
Asking to DQ people who is trust Colombian amateurs is not right
About renting your qth I get information from LU1DZ message and propably W4OI is do that specially to distroy your name I dont know about that I just show the link and propably like member of GACW you have to see that also and there is no word about licensing
Its very clear for me that some Colombians amateurs get YL2KL,RA3CO to make mistake and also take money for it and now other Colombian amateurs trying to make actions against them
73 Al 4L5A
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  #43  
Old 01-16-2009, 12:46 PM
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Default Please no more lies!

We don't forget responsibility of station owner. All is in our formal complaint to the Ministry.
One more time: No guest operator in HK and the real HK3RA never agree the ilegal use of his call, RA3CO used it without the knowledge of the license holder. Read my post. Please no more lies!
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  #44  
Old 01-16-2009, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4L5A View Post
Juan why you pushing those two hams all the time?

Its very clear for me that some Colombians amateurs get YL2KL,RA3CO to make mistake and also take money for it and now other Colombian amateurs trying to make actions against them
Can't you read? Who is profiting? Now don't make it about poor RA3CO or poor YL2KL, they knew what they were doing, what they didn't expect is for us to investigate how real they were..they got caught as simple as that. The explanation is there and I explained the whole situation to you clearly and you insist in calling us dishonest and trying to discredit me and other HKs. FYI, it's not working, we have all the proof in hand of the PTT and soon enough they have their say we will let the ham community know. In the meantime your blabber fits no reason, your speculation is only that and you uncanny reasoning is highly suspicious.
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Old 01-16-2009, 03:13 PM
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Rob you telling us now that YL2KL and RA3CO is know in advance that they are against local law?
I give you email where locals is tell them (not local Latvians or Russian but Colombians) that they are can use that calls
You see that message right?
Who is think against law locals telling them and allowing them to use that calls or foreigners who is trust locals?
73 Al 4L5A
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  #46  
Old 01-16-2009, 03:15 PM
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Juan I send email to Rob where local ham is telling RA3CO that HK3RA is happy if he will use his call sign
Its pitty but its like it is
73 Al 4L5A
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  #47  
Old 01-16-2009, 03:48 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 4
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Uffffff.....it's not true. I repeat: No guest operator in HK and the real HK3RA never agree the ilegal use of his call, RA3CO used it without the knowledge of the license holder. Read my post. Please no more lies!
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  #48  
Old 01-16-2009, 04:03 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 20
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Juan ask Rob to show you letter from HK3JE to RA3CO
Or if you like I can send it to you or show you here I dont know
Juan RA3CO pay money to rent qth do you think he is stupied to rent qth to operate with illegal call?
He have letter from local amateur and he trust it and that is his mistake on that I agree and you see his answer he agree on that also
Juan you know its difficult for radioamateur to dont trust another amateur when he tell him that everything is agreed and its not a problem
On the same time you know very well that owner of the station is allow him to do that and like you describe he put you in the same trouble before :-(

73 Al 4L5A
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  #49  
Old 01-16-2009, 05:15 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 4
Default No more distorted information!

...and when we will see a mail or a letter from HK3RA lendig his call to RA3CO or authorizing the ilegal use of his call? Obviouly never!!!! HK3JE well knows HK3RA is an assigned call. I repeat: We don't forget responsibility of station owner. All is in our formal complaint to the Ministry. And don't forget RA3CO also used illegally HK1AR in 2007. RA3CO and YL2KL knew what they were doing! Please, no more distorted information.
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  #50  
Old 01-16-2009, 05:54 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 20
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Juan when You propably see letter of HK3JE telling RA3CO there is no problem and he can use HK3RA call right?
Juan look on that email:
"What call do you want to use? You can use my call without a problem or your
call HK/ or if you want to try
to get a special call I would suggest you contact HK3CW - he has assisted
others in this manner. I don't
get involved in doing that. Without a permanent residency you cannot get a
permanent call - only a special
call for a contest.

73

Tony"
You know very well who Tony is
I think in this situation local HK hams is play not very good name with visitors and in this situation that guy is rent his station and put people on the way to against Colombian law
You can be sure they are not aware of that
I just speak with Girts YL2KL now and he tell me that he find out that his operation in 2006 against Colombian law only when your letter is published
He tell me that he have discussion with Rob about special call sign but because there is not enough time to get it and he dont think special 5K call sign is so important he follow Tony suggestion and operate in the contest with HK1AR callsign in ARRL DX and WPX RTTY and he tell me that he never hear any complain from anybody about this operation
Juan Im happy that you agree with me that owner of the station is responsible and I think its his responsibility specially if he is renting QTH to make everything that operation is follow local law and not create problem for visitor
Forget about DQ and things like that people can be arested for illegal operation and really he put them in dangerouse situation very dangerouse
73 Al 4L5A
PS Of course I agree with you propably we will never see letter from HK3RA that he is allowing Dmitriy RA3CO to use his call sign and even if he will write that its still against Colombian law Only what Dmitriy is have is letter from HK3JE saying that its agreed with HK3RA :-(
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